Minimum Guild Event Score (Important Thread – please read and vote!)

[Eardrum73]

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ANNOUCEMENT THAT WILL DETERMINE THE FUTURE OF OUR GUILD.

To all Ladies of the court, Knightly Champions, Knightly Consulars and Knights of the Realm:

We had an improved result for the event – “Catch the Glutton”
Against fierce competition we came 18th place out of all the guilds in the realm! Thank you all indeed.

If you recall the minimum score required for every member was lower than previous events.
It was a trial to see if members would respond and try harder in the event without having to fulfil a minimum requirement.
The results of this trial was mixed. While we had some members shooting high. Others barely scraped through the minimum requirements.
It was difficult to say if our overall score was due to the minimum score or the easiness of the fights.

For us to move forward collectively, would you rather:

1) A higher minimum score for future events (300pts and more)
Or
2) A lower minimum score (around 150 to 200 pts)

Please vote in the poll so we can get an idea of what our members think. This is an important poll as it would determine the future direction of our guild.

[pink_dreamery]

Oddly I couldn't vote on the mobile version...
Putting on my serious hat for once, never you mind the purple feathered fedora, here's my 2 cents worth:

I opine the min pts should commensurate to the duration of the event. The Blood Sacrifice went on for quite a while (10 days was it?) and the estimate of 1 master per day may have fallen short in that regard.
What's possibly difficult for imposing a standard bar is that lower leveled members will have less stamina in the tank to go through what seems to be an almost unfair implementation of events in recent weeks. The deluge of special/limited/festive/celebratory/once-in-a-lifetime/expiring soon battles tug my (our) attention at every other way. Personally, I feel I'm already very lucky as I've had a decent headstart in cards and levels, plus I'm not averse to spending diamonds on refills since I have very little expenses and what money I make goes to splurging on my disgustingly-cute poodle but she's oh-so-tiny and can't eat much nor have many wants. Anyway I digress, just want to note that the event difficulty matters too - for the recent slime, I didn't think twice about loading GM whenever I had 50 stam in the bank. My strongest motivation is probably not one many would share (and not the wall of shame *gasp*) - so that the burden on the front few can be lessened somehow.

I am however loth to change the way we operate; taking the recent rankings into consideration, what will the extra bring us?

[fattony888]

spelling error in vote option? 150-2900?

[Eardrum73]

Fixed the typo!

What are you guys saying? Is there a technical problem with the voting system?

[pink_dreamery]

No problem... I abstained from voting.
The mobile version doesn't work for polling (radio buttons don't appear) but no biggie, I could just go on my laptop

[Lj_Lee]

Hmm I voted for 150 - 200.

Actually the ranking system doesn't really entice me to do the point chase as much but the previous experience has shown that the ranks did have some sort of positive (or negative) effect on our morale within the guild. Thus, that kind of spurred some of us to go for top points.

Ultimately I have to say that we do get some serious fun in the midst of pursuing the points. That is what I enjoy the most.

Having said that, I fear that imposing higher point markers may have adverse effects on our camaraderie as a guild on top of chasing that silverware. Sure that shiny badge does look good on us and maybe will allow us to attract more committed players, but that's about all to it.

Very importantly, we have to be reminded that this guild is created and established with fun in mind on top of anything else.

[Kenna Kat]

I would go with a lower score, but it would be nice to see our league placement gradually go up as we continue with guild events. Guild rewards are always nice and I have absolutely no doubt that we will pretty much get them every time, but the challenge is the league placement. That is what I, personally, want to strive for.

[Wish I could have participated more this round, but my finals took up two days. Agh... I'm sorry guys, I tried, really. OTL]

I think perhaps a requirement in between, like 250, would make me feel better. I don't want the requirement low, like 150 per say, but 300 is a bit hard to get right off the bat, especially since Madhead is becoming more sadistic these days.

I feel like some of our members just really aren't trying at times. It's been several events where I see the same names at the bottom, and while I hope we can interact with them more, I just don't see them putting the effort in sometimes. I agree with Lj that this guild promotes a fun environment to chat and help other members, but I think we should at least try to push some of the less active members through guild event requirements.

Does that sound harsh? I feel like it does...

Anyway, Thank you for listening to my opinion.

ありがとう ございます。

[Eardrum73]

Thanks for your feedback guys!
For other members who have not voted please feel free to post your opinions!

[eugene tan]

Well..I am unable to vote but my vote is 300 points is ok and 150 points is abit low..that my vote ya

[Eardrum73]

Why cant you vote eugene?

[(KoA)Ace]

Sorry I have to vote lower score because every week seems to have a new event n it is actually consume a lot of stamina in order to get the new card dropped therefore causing my lackness of guild contribution. Im not a p2p so it is hard for me to wait for stamina regenerate.. but if the minimum guild point is set more higher I‘ll still contribute it..

[larken]

I'll be honest, the badge and league placement doesn't interest me at all.

It doesn't add anything tangible to the guild, in terms of levels or rewards - and the opportunity cost in terms of resources spent on the event is high in terms of building better teams; the intangible benefits, are of course another story altogether. I'll echo pink's statement that the recent trend of events (one-offs, SMs, rare battles) just simply draws my attention away from guild event race.

If an event runs on for a week - that's 144*7 = 1008 stamina points possible, and with no diamonds spent, level ups not included, and no failures in clearing events + with the additional condition of not getting stamina intensive guild quests; that's 20 GM runs, which only results in a max point total per player of 800 points. This is a point total that results from doing nothing but event runs the entire week - which takes resources away from leveling cards, drawing more seals to build better decks to clear harder battles.

It really depends how high the required points are going to be set. While I would think that while 300 is a fair number;300 points is still about 8 gms in the span of one week, and about 40% of the week's stamina allowance, barring the expenditure of diamonds, level ups and what not, I do have to question if its worth it? Of course, whether its worth it or not depends on the individual.

Given the trend of new stages+SM+other events that Madhead hitting us all at once, a higher point requirement per event causes further divergence in terms of resources, making us choose between a few options:

1. Give up on certain cards.
2. Give up on developing teams
3. Buy and spend diamonds.

I'm pretty lucky to already have a few mainstay teams that I can play with and work on additional teams in my spare time, as I presume is the case for most of the veteran players, but for those working on getting a stable team up, this can be rather draining on newer players.

Bottom-line, as long as everyone is doing their part (meaning no outright leeching), I don't care about the placement.

Given that we have 65 members, 150 points each puts us at about 10k (which is double the 5600 reward mark), we probably should ask what more points add to the guild.

Does it add to camaraderie? If the answer is YES, let's do it!
Does it make the game more fun for most of the guild members? If YES, let's do it!

But I would actually take issue if a higher point requirement causes additional issues - if the point requirement was 300 and a few doesn't meet it - does it mean that there would be a 'strike' against the player? A discussion of kicking the player? Or a general sentiment that those players aren't 'contributing' (this doesn't apply to the obvious leeches, of course).

Or worse, will it reach a point where some players are seen as detrimental to our race towards the top, even if he/she met the 300 point requirement?

If that's the case, I would prefer a lower achievable minimum to be set each time, but that shouldn't stop those who want to go for a higher ranking from doing so.

It's a game. It should be played for fun. I would rather not have things result in unpleasantness all just for a higher placement on a chart. I find it rather silly and that that it defeats the point of playing the game at all.

I was browsing tosforums and happened on a thread discussing this:
I think this guy has the right idea. http://www.towerofsaviorsforum.com/Thread-a-question-to-all-guild-leader-that-focus-on-score?pid=125852#pid125852

So for me the prize is not the badge but the journey. An event that brings the guild together, stronger, happier, that's what makes it worthy. More than any card I could draw. That's my reason, my goal, and my drive.

If it becomes detrimental, the badge loses any significance, and you are left better simply enjoying the game, for that is what it is--a game for you to enjoy =)

[pink_dreamery]

^
Umm what he said

[fattony888]

Here r my 2 cents.

I believe 300gp is the good minimum point and it should not b any higher. It works well for easier guild events such as gluttony slime. For lust guild event where the GM was not easily farmable. 200min points was a good number. Most guild members r active players have no trouble reaching 300. From the last 2 events the players who borderline pass min gp or did not reach min gp are less active/inactive players (based on last login times/Lvl increases) who have most likely gotten bored of tos. No offence , I will reach this stage too in the future. The min gp is mainly for those players who barely use their stamina wisely if at all.

If a player does not reach Min gp and has a reasonable explanation, its not considered a strike.

I'm a F2p. And I have never spent any diamonds on stamina refills on guild events. At most I save 1-2 stamina refill rewards, time my Lvl ups to get the most out of farming gp and collect 2week event cards before/after guild event.

For me I am most active on tos during guild events cause I think they r competitive and fun when we r all working towards a common goal. Its very satisfying to see us finally break the top 20 barrier. I think we r comfortable around top20-40. Having a slightly higher min guild point such as 300 puts less pressure for p2p champions.

[Kalvis]

I wanted to vote the first one
obviosly it is all about having fun etc. But our position as a guild is important as well. It will make our less active lmembers a little bit more active i think.

[Fret]

I didn't vote because I'm not sure what the right number is. I think it needs to be considered event by event in conjunction with what other events Madhead is running simultaneously. For example, if there's a Wednesday SM battle the same week as the guild event, I think it's fair for people to spend their stamina that day farming a SM that might only come around one day every six months in lieu of doing the guild mission.

Also, it should go without saying, but I think if someone has too much life going on at the time a guild event rolls around, they should be able to let the guild know they're not going to be able to fully participate and not get beaten up over it. It's a problem if it becomes a pattern of behavior, but personally I'm very easy going and have no problem if someone needs to bow out of a particular event for personal reasons. Don't even need to know the details, just have the courtesy to your guildmates to communicate you've got something going on.

My opinion is that any number that would require spending diamonds to achieve is too high.

At the same time, I also discount the justification of not playing the guild missions on the grounds of stamina inefficiency and/or would rather spend the daily free stamina on other missions, leveling teams, etc. While those things may be true, they come from a selfish mindset that fails to consider that playing for your guildmates is part of being in a guild.

Would I have played the slime as much as I did if it wasn't a guild event? nope. Would I rather have done other things with my stamina? Yep. But I still managed 700something points without spending diamonds on stamina restores, while also doing what I needed to get the limited time "Terror of x" drops (in the interest of full disclosure, I didn't bother with the Greenery King SM on Wednesday, so that was stamina saved). I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people who want to be part of something to do what I did - sacrifice a little of their personal desires/goals for a week for the benefit of the whole.

That's all to say that I think a reasonable minimum achievement number is one that requires a bit of dedication even if it means putting your personal desires on hold, but at the same time doesn't require obsessive gaming and/or spending diamonds to reach.

[Kittyeyaya]

I didn’t vote either, because my option is not there. A lower minimum score requirement for each player doesn’t mean I don’t care about the guild ranking.

A minimum score requirement only affects less active players in the guild. Dedicated player will try their best to farm guild points regardless of what the minimum requirement is. If we look at our guild points for this event, there are only a dozen or so players who scored around the minimum required points needed. If these players were to each score 100 more points, they would’ve only increased our ranking by 2 positions in the top 100 leader board. The trade-off, however, could have been unnecessary resentment from these players – something a good guild should avoid.

I believe the minimum score requirement we setup for this event was fair enough – doing 5 master battles in a Soul Master week isn’t too much to ask even for f2p players. However, choosing a lower minimum requirement doesn’t mean I don’t care about the guild ranking. In fact, I care a lot. We now have 2 more chances to recruit players into our guild. A higher ranked guild will attract active higher level players more easily if they are not happy with their own guild.

[Eardrum73]

hi all,

Thank you Fret, Kit and Pink.

There is now no "presume" reason behind the voting selections. Just Higher or lower.
Feel free to post your reasons and decisions in the thread so we can all better understand each other.

[maouinin]

I favor lower. For me, much of the joy is the family-like nature of the guild. And in the guild events, the joy is the chase. I don't spin like one possessed during guild events for the glory (well, there is that, and it is nice) but rather because I want to see how high we can go. Because it's there.

I feel no rancor toward those who don't meet minimum scores. Families are like that. There are always those who do more and those who do less. I do hope that everyone will help out as much as they can, but I want them to do so  because they have been infected by the blood lust, the joy of the chase -- not because there is a whip behind them.

But in the end, families are not democracies, the guild is not a democracy (as Camelot was not), and the final decision lies with Ear. He has my full support, whatever he decides.

Salve et Vale.

[Brokenshirt]

Everyone makes very good points here. I can't vote yet and need to think about it more. Walking into the forum I was ready to vote lower. The guild is meant to be fun and everyone is right, MH is really making it tough on F2P. I want people to enjoy being in the guild and to benefit from the reward it brings.

On the other side, Fattony it right. Many names at the bottom are always at the bottom. The likely aren't interested in tos anymore and just log in daily to get their rewards. I've been there with other games. I just don't know how to fix that. If we set the points higher, then they just give us another 100, 150, 200 points? Where do we draw the line and us it even worth it.

I wish we could see the activity of a player so we could better judge if they play anymore or not. Would be nice to have insight into stamina spent each day or battles played. Jewel Dragon, a game like this one... A horrible horrible game, at least did have more logs of activity. It was kind of nice.

Or even if we had means to see their overall guild production. How do they contribute... Gold, exp, guild points so their value can be weighed. If someone really did nothing but log. In, that then would become very apparent.

Anyway ppl... Sway me. I am fence sitting tonight.

[pink_dreamery]

Will you be swayed with, say, a free diamond draw?  

[fattony888]

@broken

there are a few ways to assess activity

How often they lvl up - very good indicator, however may be false negative if the player spams ss battles. but overall if a player has been stuck on a lvl for >2weeks thats an indicator of inactivity

Are they lvling up their ally if not maxed - some people use max allies, hard to judge

How often they log in - if a player is ALWAYS at the bottom of log in list aka. last log in 1 day/last log in 22 hrs.

do you see them completing guild missions? - if a player is inactive its highly unlikely for them to have the patience to farm trash mobs.

Although they r not perfect they kinda work if you can put the pieces of puzzles together. madhead will never give us total transparency.

[Eardrum73]

I favor lower. For me, much of the joy is the family-like nature of the guild. And in the guild events, the joy is the chase. I don't spin like one possessed during guild events for the glory (well, there is that, and it is nice) but rather because I want to see how high we can go. Because it's there.

I feel no rancor toward those who don't meet minimum scores. Families are like that. There are always those who do more and those who do less. I do hope that everyone will help out as much as they can, but I want them to do so  because they have been infected by the blood lust, the joy of the chase -- not because there is a whip behind them.

But in the end, families are not democracies,  the guild is not a democracy (as Camelot was not), and the final decision lies with Ear. He has my full support, whatever  he decides.

Salve et Vale.

I really like this. This is such a "human" response that resonates with me and its from our Grand Champion no less.
I'm really blessed to be working with such awesome individuals.

[GranDz]

I voted for a lower score. 150-200 would be a nice mininum target. The only tangible benefits, to me, are the prizes. The Golden Badge is nice and all, but it doesn't really benefit the players directly (bonus prizes, exp, coins). I scored just a little over the minimum points for the Lust event, but I'm no way an inactive or a bored player. Back then, I ran into chain of bad luck and that damn rabbit/dragon just wouldn't drop for me. I had to farm for them over and over again as that's the last week they were around, resulting in a constraint for me to spend my staminas on guild event.

Having said that, I really do enjoy the race to top 100, especially seeing just how driven our members were. I spent all my staminas on guild event once I've finished collecting the limited time cards. Seeing our guild above many other guilds presents a sense of satisfaction within myself. The Golden Badge does in fact attract more passionate and active players, which IMO is what makes the guild more lively and fun to be around. However, if the minimum points set is going to put tremendous pressure on members due to fear of being assessed, judged, questioned, or maybe even expelled, I think that it is better to set a minimum pressure that is more reachable by all players (1 master a day, hence 150-200).

I second larken's input, especially on the game should be played for fun and not deriving unpleasantness and stress from it. This is a really fun guild. We have a proper forum, a bunch of highly active members (in chat as well as forum), chatterboxes, jesters, experts and so on. I initially joined this guild because it was, at that time, imo going to be an elite guild, which at the same time didn't have as much strict rules and requirements (some guilds have initial donation upon joining, some have weekly taxes) as other guilds. I knew that I was going to be happy in this guild, and still am. Nevertheless, I hope that KoA is not steering towards the direction of creating a dense atmosphere where members feel obligated to comply to the regulations and superiors' orders out of fear, instead of self-willingly do more than expected out of respect for their guild leaders, friends and comrades.

[fattony888]

Looks like the low gp wins it

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